... in Debbie's own words

"This medical room was very small. It contained an examining table, a desk, two chairs, and an open storage room filled with supplies. There were no windows anywhere. I was sitting in a chair against the wall facing the storage room where I noticed a telephone and a paper towel dispenser. While waiting, Jan and I chatted. I was very anxious, not to mention emotionally drained and exhausted, and we both thought the Phoenix police had found Chris and were bringing him to me.

Comment: Debra's recollections match all pertinent police records exactly. According to DET. HAMRICK'S report "DET. DiMODICA and I arrived at the Pinal County Jail at approximately 1835 hours. When we arrived we spoke to Deputy SOULES who had just arrived with DEBRA." DET. SALDATE'S report on the other hand states that "On 12-3-89 at approximately 1953 hrs, I contacted DEBRA JEAN MILKE inside an interview room at the Pinal County Sheriff's Office in Florence, Arizona." This means that both females waited for the arrival of the Phoenix detective for one hour and seventeen minutes. No attempt to escape was monitored or reported by any of the officers.

Finally, this man walked into the room and told Jan to leave and closed the door; he identified himself as Phoenix police Detective ARMANDO SALDATE. He was busy trying to make himself comfortable - rolling a chair in front of me and searching his pockets for something. I immediately asked if he had heard anything regarding Christopher, but he ignored me. He pulled a business card out of his pocket, checked his watch, wrote something down on a paper pad, looked at me and asked if I was Debbie. I looked at him strangely and said, 'Yes, of course.' He then said to me, all in one breath, 'We found your son, he was murdered and you are under arrest.'

Comment: Indeed, it is established by the trial records and admitted by SALDATE that these were his first words to the young woman. The homicide veteran elected not to have JIM STYERS arrested when SCOTT initially implicated him, still being at the police main station. Only after SALDATE had learned - in the police car and already on the way to the murder-scene - that a young woman whose little son was shot was supposedly involved, he called his superior from a gas station. Incredibly, this incrimination of SCOTT was not even mentioned in DET. ROBERT MILLS' report, who was also inside the car, driving it. It makes you wonder whether it really took place this way. SALDATE'S ruthless history shows, that taking advantage from injured, traumatized, unconscious, deeply scared and/or intimidated individuals was mostly his particular pattern and 'specialty'. Furthermore, SALDATE denied at trial and under oath that he had the intention to arrest Debra Milke before he entered that dispensary room. He claimed he decided to arrest her when he perceived her 'feign emotions', but this is provably a bold-faced lie. The police reports of DET. HAMRICK [about his interview of JANET FROEBE] and DET. DiMODICA [about the interview of MAUREEN SADEIK] show that all officers already knew that Debra would be arrested, even before SALDATE emerged from the dispensary room with her. And when he eventually did, Debra wasn't handcuffed, and the police veteran didn't mention a voluntary confession of the young woman to any of his fellow detectives, as the report of DET. HAMRICK also shows. In that, HAMRICK solely narrated that he met SALDATE "who stated that he had placed DEBRA under arrest for the homicide of her son".

I flipped out. I began screaming, 'What !? What !' and started crying uncontrollably, almost hyperventilating. I felt like a zombie and totally confused. Meanwhile, he's reading something to me from a business card. I had no comprehension or understanding of what he was reading to me because I was in complete shock. I could hear his voice, but I was in such shock I did not comprehend what he was reading to me. He asked me if I understood my rights and I said, 'No, I've never been arrested or in trouble with the law.' He read me the Miranda Rights again and after asking me if I understood and I said, 'Yes.' He asked if I wanted our interview tape-recorded. I said, 'No, I want a lawyer. I want to call my dad about a lawyer.' He ignored my request and again I asked about a lawyer. He said it was too late at night to find a lawyer, instead he scooted his chair closer to me, and me, being up against the wall with no more room to go, we were face to face. He put his hands on my knees and said, 'I am here to get the truth. You can tell me anything; I am your friend.' I told him that I wanted to use the phone in the storage room, so I could call my dad, but he kept trying to divert my attention from the phone. He said over and over, 'I am here for the truth and you can tell me.'

I could not stop crying. My whole face hurt and my nose was constantly running. I asked for some paper towels, but he would not let me get any. I ended up using my sweater, a button-up sweater I wore over a T-shirt, to wipe my nose. He began to get angry and was yelling, 'I am not here to tolerate this behavior. You can quit the act, because I know the whole story.' I screamed back, 'What story? What are you talking about?' I kept yelling at him that he was lying about my son and why was he playing this sick joke on me. He said 'I know all about Jim, Roger, the insurance money, your involvement.' I was so shocked and confused by what he was saying, I did not comprehend anything anymore. He kept accusing me of some conspiracy and insurance money. I did not understand what he was saying about Jim and Roger; How does Roger come into this picture? What insurance money? Besides, Jim would not hurt Chris ! I was totally dumfounded and I suddenly remembered a conversation I just recently had with Chris before all this happened.

In your mind you see yourself and your child talking and while you are remembering this conversation, you cry out in anguish. The detective asks you what you are thinking. You tell him that about three weeks or so ago, your child came home from Sunday school and had a piece of paper in his hand with a picture of Jesus and some angels. Your child wanted to know who God was and where He was. You sit there for a minute thinking of the best way to explain this to a child so he can understand. You tell your child that God is in a place called Heaven and that He loves everyone including little boys and girls. He can see everything that everybody does and that He is with you at all times. He is in your heart and is good to everyone. Your child asks if we can see Him and meet Him and you tell him, 'No.' You tell him that when people die they go to Heaven to be with God. Your child then says that he wants to go with you to see God. You smile at him and hug him and tell him that he shouldn't worry about that because he is a little boy and has a lot of growing up to do. Your child is not afraid of God because you explained that He was a loving God. Your child was only curious and you told your child that he had a lot of years to live and not to worry about meeting God because one day all of us will meet Him but not for a long, long time.

This conversation was in your mind and at the time of the "questioning" you remembered it because just a few weeks back you told your child not to worry about dying because he had a lot of years to live. You suddenly feel as if you betrayed your child. You begin to cry again, uncontrollably, because you still think your child is with your parents and this cop keeps telling you your child was found murdered. The cop is still badgering you and calling you a liar. I still had not grasped the fact that my son was dead and that I would never see him again. He continued with his accusations in such a vile manner and I started screaming at him, 'Look, I am not a crazy person ! I am not an animal ! I am not capable of doing anything of what you are steadily accusing me of. I want to know what happened to my son !' I also told him that I did not believe that the Jim I knew would harm my child. Nothing made any sense to me.

Comment: ... but Debra's words make a great deal of sense when put into the correct chronological context. The police reports of DET. HAMRICK and DET. DiMODICA prove that the arrest of Debra was preconceived and therefore solely based on ROGER SCOTT'S disjointed ramblings. It's hard to assess whether SALDATE truly believed in the self-contradicting statements of a mental case, or if he misused SCOTT'S statements intentionally in order to achieve two additional death penalty cases - one against Debra Milke, and - framed between SCOTT and Debra - the other one against JIM STYERS. As the reader will see pertaining to SALDATE'S interview of Debra's sister SANDY PICKINPAUGH, the homicide veteran had an evident pattern of taking single statements of a conversation out of context, misrepresenting them, twisting them, manipulating them, or - if necessary - simply falsifying them completely in order to achieve the intended objective.

Then he asked me if I was married. I told him the circumstances of our marriage and subsequent divorce and that I felt I had no other choice left in order to protect my son from that environment; that I had sought sole custody and supervised visitation based on Mark's record. I stated at this point that I did not want my son to grow up like his father and become a drug addict. I remember sitting there staring at the floor. I was rocking back and forth in the chair, devastated beyond belief. In my anguish I remember saying, 'Oh God, I just wanted to take care of him !' I felt so empty, like life had been sucked out of me. It was like being dead myself."

Comment: Personal innuendoes and sexual misconduct are another trademark of MR. SALDATE'S great achievements in the Phoenix homicide detail. As SANDY concluded after the detective had interviewed her in Wyoming, "... he seemed to be more interested in Debbie's practices with men, as you know, sexual practices with men and he seemed more interested in what she was like in relationships more so than what kind of a mother she was. And I thought that really strange ..." True, character assassination was actually the only objective during SALDATE'S so-called investigations. Interestingly, already in 1973 the Phoenix police department became aware of a serious incident of sexual nature and reprimanded the detective. Eventually it was judged: "Officer Saldate, your past performance as a police officer has been satisfactory. However, because of this incident, your image of honesty, competency, and overall reliability must be questioned. Therefore, so must your value to the department be questioned." As the comparison of SANDY PICKINPAUGH'S actual statements to SALDATE'S police report about that interview has shown, SALDATE would ruthlessly use details told to him by Debra Milke in order to fabricate his own story and offer the prosecution 'a case'.

Later on, Debbra learned that SALDATE had one avenue left. All of her remarks during the interview were taken totally out of context and twisted in such a fashion to make his story 'fit'. A selective 'lump-summed' account was prepared for the media, which proved to be enormously effective for the prosecuting agencies, the witnesses, and the jury.

"After SALDATE had left the room briefly to talk to some people, he then informed me that he would have to take me back to Phoenix. Before we left the room he told me not to utter one word about anything. He told me not to ask for a lawyer or ask any questions about why I was going to jail. He said he had everything under control. He escorted me out of the room. I was not handcuffed. I don't remember exactly how many law enforcement people I saw out there, but there were a lot of them. We went to a highway patrol car and got into the back seat. He whispered to me to remain quiet. I asked him again if he was going to take me to Phoenix to see my son and he reminded me that Chris was dead. I still did not believe a word he said and he kept saying that he had to take me to jail because of the seriousness of the crime. I thought I was going to jail for neglect, because I had left Chris in someone else's care when he was kidnapped. I later found out that Chris was never kidnapped and that Jim had only told me that so it would look like a stranger had abducted and killed him. I sat there staring into space like a zombie during the sixty-five mile drive back to Phoenix. I felt at the edge of my sanity. When we reached the main police station, SALDATE walked me inside and we took an elevator to his office. He asked if I wanted a soda. I said, 'Yes, and I also want to talk to my dad.' Again, I was refused. I remember all these bright lights and cameras. I was in shock and I did not understand anything going on around me. I also remember him taking me on a tour through his office bragging about his certificates and awards. Then it was time to go to the jail. I remember a police officer holding handcuffs. I nearly lost it. I cried out, 'I did not commit a crime ! I didn't do anything ! Please don't put these things on me. Why am I going to jail?' SALDATE, trying to calm me down, said that I could call my dad from there to see about bail.

After that my mind went blank. I don't recall any of my family coming to see me and no one did (as I found out). I don't remember anything about how many days I spent there and that I was transferred to another jail, Durango. I don't even remember when I first met my Public Defender. I was so traumatized that I do not recall anything until somewhere in January 1990. I was still in total denial as to what happened to my son. I remember being housed in the psychiatric unit of Durango Jail and that several psychiatrists came to visit me on a regular basis. I was suffering from severe depression, shock and hour-long crying spells. I was treated with anti-depressants all the way into my trial days. My depression was not a result of being incarcerated or having lost my freedom, but the loss of my son - the only thing left in my shattered life - just overwhelmed me. I was told later on that I was not even able to talk to my Public Defender without going into depression and crying for hours on end. I don't know what kind of effect these drugs had on me during my trial days, but I know that I was being prepped as to how to appear on the stand and to remain "cool." My worst fear was always of "losing it" in front of all these people. I was raised to obey my elders and when things troubled me, I would shove it back into the recesses of my mind. I just did not want to break down in the courtroom."

Court records and testimony show the nature of Debbie's interview sessions in the psychiatric unit and that all of the staff was aware of the high-profile case through the media. During the course of the trial, it was stated that Debra showed no emotion, yet she has been witnessed by all of her counselors to break down and cry because she felt extremely devastated by the loss of her child and in some sense about the fact that she was charged with having a role in his death. Debbie was in total denial of the fact of her son's death and she continued to believe that her son was in the care of her parents (excerpted from the Presentencing Hearing on January 11, 1991).

"During the first meeting with my Public Defender, that I do recall, I asked him if it was true that my son had been murdered. He looked at me strangely and asked, 'You don't know?' I told him that this detective had told me that Chris had been murdered, but that I just could not believe it. I also told him that I did not know why I was in jail, because I did not do anything. I did not commit any kind of crime. My lawyer got this serious look on his face and handed me a six page police report typed out by SALDATE. As I was reading it, I could not believe what I was reading. SALDATE claimed that I made a confession admitting my involvement in this crime. I became furious and told my lawyer that I never made any type of confession, but tried to defend myself to the question this cop was accusing me of. I went into this interview in good faith to find out about my son and then to read this report - written three days after the interview - it just blew me away. I was never given a chance to call anyone, there were no witnesses, no tape-recording (because when he asked me about wanting it tape-recorded I had no idea what his intentions were). So, this man had three days to concoct a story to make his preconceived notion fit. When Mr. Ray showed me these pages, I still had no comprehension as to what these pages would eventually mean. From what little I knew, I thought that when a suspect is questioned, a report is written up right away. The suspect gets to see it for accuracy and can initial any errors and then sign it. I had no clue whatsoever that these pages I was shown constituted an official report and I do not recall my defense counsel telling me anything about any future ramifications. All I knew is that I did not commit any crime, that I had never confessed anything to anybody and that I was never given anything to read and sign.

All I wanted to do is to get this nightmare over with and I wanted to be tried first. There was never any doubt in my mind that the court would find out that I was totally innocent and I believed in the judicial system as I was raised to believe. I believed that an attorney, even a Public Defender, would find out the truth because the simple truth is that nothing whatsoever links me to this crime forensically. I had no reason or motive to have my child killed, and yet a self-written fabrication of one police officer, basing his conclusions on the words of a person with a proven history of mental disturbances which were not even raised in my trial to be argued are taken as evidence. I asked to have a lie detector test taken and passed it, but it could not be entered into evidence. But a fabricated report in narrative form, without any evidence to back it up, was permitted as evidence and used against me.

Deep down in my heart, I know that motives other then finding justice were instrumental in my conviction and sentencing. The trial itself was a miscarriage of justice, but the appeals process to which I am entitled proved even more alarming, as to how 'justice' is being practiced in real life. Sometimes, I just want to give up, but I keep thinking of other people who may find themselves in the same position and perhaps I can make a difference. That's why I keep fighting."

Read James Styers' letter
about this point to J. Radulovich,
former webmaster of this site !

"Roger was arrested first, then Jim (while on his way to church). The Supervising Sergeant on this investigation told SALDATE to talk to me and interview me. He specifically told him that I was not a suspect and that he bring a tape recorder for the interview. He also told him to have other police detectives present (Apparently this sergeant knew how this particular detective operated and this is why he gave him these directives). SALDATE disobeyed all of these orders. As far as I can ascertain SALDATE had his own agenda all made up and knew that if he could get me connected with the crime, it would be a sensational story: 'Mom Hires Hit Men to Kill Her Son.' He had plans to nail me even before he laid eyes on me, without so much as a shred of evidence except the ramblings of a proven mentally disturbed person being withheld from his drugs and driven into delirium by threats for many hours."

The entire ordeal following has become a nightmare of major proportions and it is so overwhelming, that it is not possible for a normal everyday citizen to understand. You would never imagine in your wildest dreams that any of this can happen to you. This happens to other people or in the movies and everyone would say, 'Wow, how awful !' Just imagine this happening to you and in this society. It can ! In this scenario, there are so many different twists - anger, jealousy, hatred, revenge - each with their own meaning behind them, either self-serving or pure vindictiveness. You are being portrayed by the media as an evil woman who wanted her child killed, when all you tried to do is to protect him from the evil that surrounded you. This is on the news every day, and down deep inside you know, you are not that kind of person.

"NO ONE CAN IMAGINE HOW HARD THE HEART CAN HURT. THE PAIN GROWS DEEPER EACH DAY AND I WONDER HOW MUCH MORE PAIN A PERSON CAN ENDURE. IT HAS BECOME A DAILY STRUGGLE TO HANG ON TO HUMAN VALUES. I BELIEVE IN HUMAN VALUES, BUT DO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN POWER TO DECIDE OVER LIFE AND DEATH? BUT, EVEN MORE IMPORTANT, DO THEY CARE ABOUT SAFEGUARDING A LIFE BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT, AS OUR CONSTITUTION PRESCRIBES? I SERIOUSLY WONDER ABOUT THAT."