On Saturday morning, she woke up and spoke to JIM. JIM told her that they were planning to do it today and that he was going to pick up ROGER. She said she then got her son dressed in the clothing that she had previously described on the missing person's report and that she told him that JIM was going to take him to see Santa Claus. She said when JIM and her son left, she knew that they were going to do it today but was not positive because JIM had taken him out at least two other times and for several reasons had brought him back.
DEBRA said that during the past month, she has laid in bed next to her son and that her son has told her that he missed his father and wanted to know when his father would be home. She said on those occasions, she felt disappointed that JIM had not done it yet. I asked DEBRA if she was getting angry with JIM and ROGER and she told me she was not getting angry but was disappointed because the longer they waited, the more influence her ex-husband could put on CHRIS.
I asked DEBRA if that morning when her son left, if she gave him a special hug or kiss and she told me that she did not have to. I asked her if she could explain and she told me that approximately one week ago, she told her son that God was coming down and going to take him and that he was going to be going to Heaven. She said she also told him that she would see him later in Heaven. I then asked her if she dressed her son especially for that day with his boots, levis and sweatshirt and she said she did not. She said she let CHRIS pick out the clothes he wanted that day and that he loved wearing his boots.
At approximately 3:20 PM that day, DEBRA said she received a call from JIM and he said that he was at the mall. DEBRA said she immediately realized that he had done it and that her son was now dead. JIM also told her that CHRIS was lost somewhere at Sears and that he had a security guard standing next to him. DEBRA said she never told JIM anything other than to call her back later. When she hung up the phone, she said she immediately prayed to God to take care of CHRIS and that she would not be mad at him if he sent her to Hell. She also prayed to God to do something that would never allow her to have any more kids. DEBRA then told me that she was not crazy and she would hope that nobody thought she was. She said she did this because she loved her son and did not want see him grow up like her ex-husband. She asked me if I understood her and I told her that I understood what she was telling me but that I did not understand the end result.
DEBRA was worried about her family not understanding and said that she believed her family would now disown her. I explained to DEBRA that her family was still her family and that they would probably try to help her but she could not expect them to support what she did. She then told me that she was sure her father would probably think that she was crazy and again said she was not. She then asked me if she thought someone would try to pronounce her insane and I asked her if she was. She then responded "no, I'm just an emotionally troubled 25 year old girl who needs help dealing with her problems." She then told me that she has had her problems bottled up in her and that she has never been able to express herself from the time she married MARK until now.
DEBRA then asked me how I felt about her and I told her I could understand what she had been telling me but that there were other alternatives if she did not want her child CHRIS. I suggested to her that she could have given her child to the grandparents, her sister or someone else in her family that may have wanted him. She then told me that she probably could have and then said "I guess I just made a bad judgment call."
DEBRA was very concerned about what was going to happen to her and at the first part of the interview wanted to know if we were going to let her go back home. I explained to her that she was under arrest and that she would be going back to Phoenix and be put into jail. DEBRA kept asking why she couldn't just be let go and given a court date because she had never been in any type of trouble. I told DEBRA that because of the seriousness of her crime, she would have to go to jail. DEBRA continued through the interview asking if it was possible that she could get probation and I told her that she would be charged with first degree murder and that I was not the judge however, first degree murder could carry the death penalty, life imprisonment, or a lengthy jail term. She then asked me if it was possible to get probation for life and I told her it was possible but not very probable. She said she would even let the court tie her tubes and ensure that she would never have kids if they would only put her on probation so she could go back to work. DEBRA then explained to me that her work was very important to her and that was the only thing she ever did good. She said she started as a file clerk and was now in accounting and she said she would really miss her job if she had to go jail.
DEBRA also kept telling me that she felt bad and she felt ashamed and said that she knew that everyone was going to be staring at her because of this. She then told me "I worry about JIM". I asked her why and she continued and said "well, you know, because he had to be the one to do it." I then explained to her that she should concern herself about her future and let JIM worry about his.
DEBRA was transported back to the Phoenix Police Department in a uniform Pinal County Sheriff's vehicle. She and I sat in the back seat of the uniform police vehicle and DEBRA was not handcuffed. Corporal M. ANDONIE #27 of Pinal County was the driver.
During the trip back to Phoenix, she kept on asking questions to see if I knew what she was going to get and I told her I did not. She asked if she could possibly get bailed out and I told her that it would probably be a bailable offense and that her family could probably help her in that aspect. She then told me that she didn't believe that her family would help her and that she thought her family would probably disown her. She then commented that her family would probably not understand why she did it like I did. I then again reminded her that I understood what she was telling me but I could not condone her actions. She also asked me if I would call her father, explain to him what she had told me and ask him to try and bail her out and get her an attorney. I agreed and told her when we arrived back into Phoenix, that I would call him from my office.
At approximately 2250 hrs, we arrived back in Phoenix and she was taken to General Investigations Bureau where the booking information was obtained. She was given a Pepsi and some cigarettes were purchased for her. She then asked me if I would call her father which I did. I explained to her father that DEBRA had confessed to her involvement and that she had told me that she had done it because she did not want CHRIS to grow up like his father. I then told him that DEBRA wanted me to ask him to try and bail her out and he immediately told me that he would not. I then told him that DEBRA also wanted me to ask him if he could get her an attorney and he told me that he had gotten in touch with her mother in Switzerland and that she had talked about getting an attorney for her but that as far he was concerned, they should give her a public defender because he would not make any attempts to get an attorney for her. I asked him if he wanted to speak with DEBRA and he said he did not at this time but for me to tell her that he may talk to her several days down the road. He then asked me if I understood how he felt and I told him that I did. He asked me to tell her that he would cross each bridge as he came it to and that at this time he could not talk with her. I then relayed the information to DEBRA.
While waiting to be transported to be booked, DEBRA asked me if I thought there was a possibility that she may be released on her recognizance so she could go to work and I told her that probably would not be possible. She then commented that she had never been in any trouble and that she would never leave the state and would be available for court. Again I told her that it would probably not be possible. DEBRA also asked me if I was going to call her employer and tell him about what happened and I told her I was not. I then asked DEBRA why and she told me that just in case she does get out on bail or on her own, that she would like to go back to work because she really liked her job.
I finally told DEBRA that it was time to go and that I would have to handcuff her for the first time. I then handcuffed her with her hands to her front and she asked if I could go with her. I told her that I could not go with her this time and she immediately said that she was scared. I told her that she would have to face this by herself and that she was an adult and had made an adult decision to do something and now she bad to face the music. She then told me that she had never had anyone that she could speak with before and that this may sound strange but she was starting to feel better and she thought she was now getting her self-esteem back. DEBRA was then taken by uniform 0FF. BAKER to the main jail and booked.
It should be noted that this interview was not tape recorded because DEBRA refused to have her statement tape recorded.
Investigation Continuing.
