Interview of Henry Milke

MR. RAY: Today is June 15th. It's 2:05 in the afternoon in the offices of Tom Buckner, the County Attorney's office. Conducting the interview of Henry Milke in connection with the matter of State v. Milke, et al.
Mr. Milke, I'm Kenneth Ray. I represent Debra Milke which you mayor may not have known.
MR. MILKE: You mean Debra only or --
MR. RAY: Debra only.
MR. MILKE: Okay.
MR. RAY: Debra and only Debra. And the purpose of this brief meeting today is to ascertain what knowledge you have of the circumstances both before, during and after this event. Okay?
MR. MILKE: Um-hmm

(...)

Ken Ray: The other phone call, what do you recollect of that one?
Henry Milke: I forget now what that's related with. I mean this last one, yeah but what do you mean -- the other phone call?
Ken Ray: Yeah. You said you could recollect that she -- you had talked to her twice.
Henry Milke: Okay. The other phone call this -- well, okay. That really had to do with inviting Mark over to their apartment the night before Mark went to Texas to visit my other son. To come over to their apartment and watch Batman with little Christopher.

Comment: In this passage HENRY MILKE described that Debra had called on Monday (November 27, 1989) to invite her ex-husband MARK MILKE to see a Batman movie with their son. Considering the "conspiracy" allegation of the authorities this action would be the oddest thing imaginable. SALDATE'S police report (including the alleged confession) claims she didn't want her son to grow up like his father, and the meaning was simply MARK MILKE'S irresponsibility as a parent. If she indeed wanted CHRISTOPHER killed... why should she invite him to watch a movie together with his son? This contradicts the "consipracy" allegation substantially.

Ken Ray: Okay. Did you participate, in other words, in the conversation directly with Debra or anyone?
Henry Milke: Not a long conversation, no. But I did take the message.
Ken Ray: Okay.
Henry Milke: Mark wasn't home.
Ken Ray: Did Mark go over that night?
Henry Milke: No, he called her and told her he had to pack and didn't have time.
Ken Ray: When did Mark go to Texas?
Henry Milke: Well, I don't have a calendar in front of me here but it was the last week -- the last Monday in November, whatever that date was then.
Ken Ray: Okay. Was it after Thanksgiving or was it on a Tuesday. Do we have a calendar somewhere around here.
Henry Milke: It must have been after Thanksgiving, yeah.
Ken Ray: Here's an '89 calendar, Mr. Milke, if that would help.
Henry Milke: Let's see here. (Inaudible).
What is the first -- I think they left on Tuesday morning.
Ken Ray: The last Tuesday before Christopher's death?
Henry Milke: Yeah.
Ken Ray: Okay. That would have been November 28th. That's the last Tuesday in November.
Henry Milke: That seems like that was --
Ken Ray: Does that seem correct?
Henry Milke: Yeah.

( ... )

Ken Ray: Did Mark ever tell you that another reason -- he had another reason for going to Texas?
Henry Milke: Oh, yeah, yeah, sure.
Ken Ray: What was his other reason?
Henry Milke: Funny reason. To get a Texas driver's license.
Ken Ray: Okay. Did he get one?
Henry Milke: Yes, I think he did.
Ken Ray: Did he tell you in subsequent conversations that you had with him that he failed the first test?
Henry Milke: Oh, yes, we talked about it.
Ken Ray: Did he tell you that he had to take a second test to get a license?
Henry Milke: In fact yes, uh-huh. I encouraged it even because he was supposed to come back that Monday after Christopher's death and I said well it didn't pay to go back for retesting, just go back Monday and come in Monday night, something like that. Because he would have flown in Sunday.
Ken Ray: So after he learned of his son's death you had a conversation with him and encouraged him to retake the exam?
Henry Milke: Of course. Absolutely. Yeah.

Comment: Picture this: MARK MILKE'S 4-year-old son was reported missing on Saturday (December 2), on Sunday (December 3) Chris' death was confirmed ... and his father, MARK MILKE, peacefully made his driving liecense in Texas. Uhm ... need we say more?

Ken Ray: Did -- was it Harold that made arrangements for the flight to come back from Texas for him?
Henry Milke: Yes. They both came back at the same time?
Ken Ray: Did they?
Henry Milke: Yes. Uh-huh. He was just here and he had to come back for the funeral. Yes.
Ken Ray: All right. Did you know Jim Styers?
Henry Milke: No.
Ken Ray: Never met him?
Henry Milke: Never, ever.
Ken Ray: Did Christopher in any times that you were with Christopher ever mention Jim Styers?
Henry Milke: Never.
Ken Ray: Did you know Roger Scott?
Henry Milke: Never.
Ken Ray: Had Christopher ever mentioned Roger's name or anybody by the name of Roger?
Henry Milke: No.
Ken Ray: Okay. Had Mark ever mentioned Roger's or Jim's name?
Henry Milke: Not Roger's, no, not at all. Seems like he mentioned Jim's name, yes.

Comment: But we know that MARK MILKE suspected ROGER SCOTT immediately, when police detective DiMODICA contacted him via telephone (durting the interview with MARK'S mother ILSE) in the early hours of that Sunday, December 3, 1989. MARK said "JAMES does have some friends that he does not trust and named one as ROGER." Therefore MARK MILKE must have known ROGER SCOTT prior to the killing of Christopher.

Ken Ray: Okay. Did he mention it -- do you remember the circumstances of his mentioning the name. In other words --
Henry Milke: Well, Mark seemed to indicate to me that he was receiving better care from Jim than he did from Debra, yes. Of course.

Comment: It's not a wonder and no surprise that a 42-year-old, unemployed man has more patience to deal with a 4-year-old boy (and little Christopher was known to be a "handful"), than a 25-year-old single mother, who was occasionally working two jobs at a time and had an unstable private life. At this point, let us also inform you that JIM STYERS not only had his 2-year-old daughter WENDY, but also a daughter named HEATHER, who was 11 at the time. STYERS' was actually a pretty family-oriented man. MARK'S reproduced statement is no surprise and is contradictory to the prejudiced condemnation of Debra, that she asked JIM STYERS to watch Christopher. Obviously MARK MILKE didn't object to that either.

Ken Ray: Okay.
Henry Milke: Absolutely.
Ken Ray: Okay.
Henry Milke: He spoke highly of Jim.
Ken Ray: Okay.
Henry Milke: He spoke of Jim as a religious man.
Ken Ray: In terms of better care that he was receiving -- that your grandson was receiving from Jim as opposed to Debra, did Mark ever complain to you about he was unhappy with the care that Debra was giving Christopher?
Henry Milke: Let's put it this way. Not as far as cleanliness, anything like that. But as far as being harsh to the child, yes, he was complaining.
Ken Ray: Tell me about that. I need to --
Henry Milke: Hollering, shouting at him. Not having the patience with him that she should have.
Ken Ray: Okay. But --
Henry Milke: This is where this Jim comes in. Jim's supposed to have the patience. Jim took the child to places where the child wanted to go, you know.

( ... )

Ken Ray: Okay. Just a second here. Hold on here. Mr. Milke, I'd like to read to you a part of a police report that was prepared in connection with this case. It was prepared by a Detective DeMotica (sic). I don't know whether you remember that name or not. But it says that on, well, I guess it would be on the 2nd of December while the boy was missing. This detective contacted you at your house. Do you remember a detective coming over to your house?
Henry Milke: Yes. Two of them.
Ken Ray: Okay. Were you aware -- at the time the detectives arrived at your house were you aware that Christopher was missing?
Henry Milke: No, absolutely not.
Ken Ray: They were the first to tell you that Christopher was missing?
Henry Milke: There was a police call at 12:00 o'clock midnight on December the 2nd which you were saying before I think the date should be corrected. If it's after 12:00 o'clock midnight wouldn't that be the 3rd?
Ken Ray: Well, this is -- I'm talking about a face-to-face. Apparently somebody --
Henry Milke: Yes.
Ken Ray: -- came over to your house face-to-face.
Henry Milke: Yes. Um-hmm.
Ken Ray: And so at the time of the face-to-face you were then aware that the boy was missing. Am I correct?
Henry Milke: I was aware as of 12:00 o'clock midnight when the police called me from Metro Center and asked me if I was home and if two detectives could come over. Yes. And he told me.
Ken Ray: Did you attempt to get a hold of Mark at that point?
Henry Milke: Immediately.
Ken Ray: And were you able to make contact then?
Henry Milke: Yes, I did.
Ken Ray: All right. And -- well, to save some time and some tape, can I show you this report and for you to read it? All right. Shut off the tape, okay.
Could I see that a second so I can identify what we're looking at here.
Henry Milke: It's just part. (Inaudible)
Ken Ray: What I'm looking at is a police report, a one-page supplement dated -- date of supplement 12-2-89 DR 89-179406 report of Detective F. DeMotica Number 4384. Prepared 12-3-89 GIB. You pointed, Mr. Milke, off the record, at something of this report that you seem isn't quite right. Would you identify the paragraph for me please.
Henry Milke: Well, where does it say here where I got really disturbed. That said at one portion here.
Ken Ray: All right.
Henry Milke: Which one is it?
Ken Ray: Well let me read rather quickly. Paragraph one, two, three. Paragraph four says that you told the detective that Mark was now in Texas with Mark's brother, Harold Milke. That's true, right?
Henry Milke: That is true.
Ken Ray: All right. That -- he continues that Mark has been there for the last week and was planning to fly back to Phoenix sometime in the afternoon on December 3rd.
Henry Milke: Right. That's what they had it for.
Ken Ray: Okay. The next paragraph. Paragraph five says when I asked Henry for a phone number where I could reach Mark in Texas he became defensive and said that he would not give it to me. Is that true?
Henry Milke: First of all I didn't even have the telephone number. The boy just moved into the apartment. Honestly I didn't.
Ken Ray: Okay.
Henry Milke: I -- I mean I got it from a friend of his. No, wait a minute, they called me then because well, all right. Since I started talking I'll tell you. We have a friend in the family is a policeman. He helped us through this. Because the police was very tight-lipped about everything.
Ken Ray: The local police?
Henry Milke: Yes.
Ken Ray: Okay.
Henry Milke: And obviously for a reason. Okay. This policeman is Harold's school friend.
Ken Ray: This policeman here is?
Henry Milke: No. The one I'm talking about. He got me Harold's telephone number. He asked to call Harold before I did and Mark in Texas. But that was after this. Because I didn't know anything. This was around 3:00 o'clock at night. I was up all night.
Ken Ray: Sure. So you didn't have a phone number to give them anyway.
Henry Milke: Honestly I didn't. But I never in the world said that Mark shouldn't be disturbed. Now this is --
Ken Ray: Let me read that --
Henry Milke: That's wrong.
Ken Ray: -- into the record. The report says that --
Henry Milke: No, that's wrong.
Ken Ray: He says that Mark would have no reason to come back to town and take Christopher and did not want Mark disturbed.
Henry Milke: No. I didn't say not Mark disturbed. That isn't right.

Comment: It's actually no big surprise that a Phoenix police report twisted statements or falsified the testimony of an interviewed individual. Here HENRY MILKE declared two points of DETECTIVE DiMODICA'S report wrong, namely: that HENRY MILKE supposedly said MARK shouldn't be disturbed, and that he purportedly said MARK wouldn't have a reason to come back to Phoenix. Both points corroborate how ruthless the police tried to create a "connection" of anyone with the disappearance of Christopher Milke.

Ken Ray: Okay.
Henry Milke: That's wrong. I didn't want Harold disturbed. I told them the man is in the Army. If they have a message to get to my son Harold that's doing a job for the Army, I don't want him disturbed in his job. He's a very good soldier and (inaudible) very good.
If they got anything to get to them, to either one of them they could get it through the local police department there. I think that's what those authorities are for. I spelled it out to them. And of course if they want to take an offense to it that's their business.
Ken Ray: Sure. The -- are you willing to disclose --
Henry Milke: I don't like this twisting around. Now that one should be corrected.
Ken Ray: I know.
Henry Milke: But you understand right?
MAN'S VOICE: Sometimes things like that are misconstrued. They're talking to lots of people and interviewing a lot of people.

Comment: BUCKNER (here cited as "MAN'S VOICE"), investigator for the State Attorney's Office and a former police cop himself, tried to cover police detective DiMODICA. But these points are not moot points; they are essential in investigations and are suitable to attack and accuse people of crimes they have nothing to do with. The questionable police conduct of the Maricopa County police authorities were in the spotlight before, and resulted in the federal decision for the "Miranda Warnings" in the late 60s.

Henry Milke: I understand.
MAN'S VOICE: It's nothing malicious towards you or anything like that, you know that.
Henry Milke: But even if I did so. What did I do wrong?
MAN'S VOICE : Nothing.
Ken Ray: Nobody's accusing you of anything. I need to know what this means.
Henry Milke: Okay. That's what it means.
Ken Ray: You see, that's what I'm saying.
Henry Milke: No, there was no other purpose really that -- I make it a rule even in my own house I don't want just any Joe, average Joe to call my house or knock on the door to solicit and that's the way I keep it in my family. That's the way my children are trained. Not everybody is their friend. And this is what I'm teaching them. But I'm protecting my son because he's got a job to do. He's making high grades. There's a purpose behind this. I mean here maybe in this case maybe I didn't -- of course, I couldn't given them the phone number. I honestly didn't have it.
Ken Ray: All right. May I ask you, did -- let's be blunt about it. Are you willing to disclose the name of the police officer that gave you assistance through this?
Henry Milke: Absolutely not.
Ken Ray: All right.
Henry Milke: Because it would involve higher authorities and I don't want that. Because this isn't the end of it.

Comment: Ken Ray later filed a motion to disclose the name of this police officer, who eventually unraveled as TOM OVERSTAKE. OVERSTAKE had actually nothing much to say, other than what police already "thought" was true. He fed HENRY MILKE the same details as later told to the media (who uncritically reproduced the statements of Saldate).

Ken Ray: I don't mean to think that I'm on a Easter egg hunt here but is it a local police department, local could be anywhere in the state --
Henry Milke: Yeah, it's local.
Ken Ray: -- or is it somewhere out of state?
Henry Milke: No, it's local.
Ken Ray: All right.
Henry Milke: It's local and if you want to know, I mean, I'll say this that I think there's some, what's it called, secret information, what's the word for it?
Ken Ray: Privileged or confidential.
Henry Milke: No, there's another word for it.
Ken Ray: Conspiracy.
Henry Milke: If something just gets published in court. Some information.
Ken Ray: Oh, you mean libel, slander, no.
Henry Milke: That's not it either. I'll think of the word, I mean, you know. And it's got to do with that kind of sealed information. It's got to do with sealed information and I won't say who it was.
Ken Ray: Okay.
Henry Milke: Because it brings some high police, you know, some trouble and I don't want that. Because I tell you this is -- if you people don't understand what we had to go through. I mean we are really -- we were searching. We couldn't -- this was beyond our -- I mean, we couldn't believe that something like that would happen. We all loved the child.
Ken Ray: I'm having troubles believing it too. There's a lot of people that's going to have trouble with this case. You know that?
Henry Milke: Yes, obviously. It's that kind of a case.
Ken Ray: All right. You had an occasion after -- during the course of this investigation and shortly afterwards to speak to some television personnel at your house.
Henry Milke: Yes.
Ken Ray: And in that interview you told them that you got word somehow or another that the reason this boy was murdered was for money.
Henry Milke: One of the reasons.

Comment: Here we see how the early manipulations of the police authorities set HENRY MILKE'S mind on the scenario created for the public. Despite his own contact with Debra HENRY MIKE uncritically repeated what police had told him.

Ken Ray: All right. Who told you that?
Henry Milke: Who told me that?
Ken Ray: Yes.
Henry Milke: That he was murdered for money?
Ken Ray: Yeah.
Henry Milke: That's myself.

Comment: That's himself? Interesting. What did officer TOM OVERSTAKE have to tell MR. MILKE about the killing of Christopher, other than what Saldate has already told the media on December 3? By the way, the speed of the police authorities to have their version of the crime "in print" is amazing. But as we know, these tactics are for a reason: the media-repeated version of the murder not only influenced family members and the public in their bbiased opinion, but also the mindset of the judge and the jury members. We will learn later on in this interview, how Saldate also used these "button-push techniques".

Ken Ray: Okay. You were specific in the interview about an insurance policy.
Henry Milke: Two insurance policies.
Ken Ray: All right. At the time though in the interview you only spoke of one insurance policy.
Henry Milke: Yes, yeah.
Ken Ray: What insurance policy were you talking about?
Henry Milke: The one Debra has -- the mother had on the child.
Ken Ray: All right. At the time you gave that interview, well, where did you get that information, that she had a life insurance policy on him.
Henry Milke: That's sealed information.
Ken Ray: That's sealed?
Henry Milke: (Inaudible)
Ken Ray: Okay. Did your son have that information that she had a life insurance policy on this boy?
Henry Milke: I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know.
Ken Ray: Okay. You later found out that there were two life insurance policies.
Henry Milke: Yes.
Ken Ray: When did you learn of a second life insurance policy?
Henry Milke: I would say, let's see, the date of the murder was on Saturday. Sunday was the 3rd. Monday the 4th. On the 5th of December.
Ken Ray: And who gave you that information?
Henry Milke: Richard Sadeik.
Ken Ray: Okay. And he told you about the fact that he had a life insurance policy on the boy?
Henry Milke: He wanted my son Mark to endorse, sign off the paper so he could cash the life insurance policy in. Double indemnity, mind you.
Ken Ray: Help me out on that one because I don't know policies -- let me tell you what information I have and you tell me if it's true or false.
Henry Milke: All right.
Ken Ray: It was my information that "Sam" Richard Sadeik had taken out a life insurance policy on Christopher's life naming himself as beneficiary in the event that something happened to Christopher.
Henry Milke: True.
Ken Ray: Apparently he has a number of these policies on a number of his grandkids.
Henry Milke: True. Nothing wrong with it.
Ken Ray: Sure. With the information I've just told you, were you aware of that before the day before the funeral?
Henry Milke: Yes. Day before the funeral, yes.
Ken Ray: That's when you first learned of that?
Henry Milke: Yes.

Comment: We will see in the following that the entire SADEIK and MILKE family had nothing else in mind but bickering about a couple of dollars as a result of Chris' death. It was also easy to abandon Debra, the daughter and ex-daughter-in-law, an leave her in the lurch. These people would rather trust questionable tactics of police authorities and be consumed with their self-righteous, prejudiced attitudes instead of using loyal, open-minded and critical questions to clarify the true background of Debra's alleged involvement.

Ken Ray: Okay. Now if I understood what you said just a moment ago he wanted Mark to sign off on something?
Henry Milke: In other words he had -- he wanted Mark to take the death certificate of Christopher, his son, to the life insurance company and sign off the necessary documents for Richard so Richard -- so they could mail Richard Sadeik the check.
Ken Ray: Okay.
Henry Milke: Now do you understand? Somebody had to present a death certificate --
Ken Ray: Death certificate.
Henry Milke: -- which my son had.
Ken Ray: And probably in order to sign off was for Mark to claim that he had no interest as the beneficiary of that policy. Do you suppose?
Henry Milke: That's probably -- but even, you know, verifying that there was a death, you know, (inaudible) took place.
Ken Ray: Did you find the fact that he had an insurance policy on Christopher offensive?
Henry Milke: You mean Richard Sadeik?
Ken Ray: Yeah.
Henry Milke: No, not at all.
Ken Ray: Okay. We were talking about whether or not you found what Mr. Sadeik did with the money or about the money offensive in any way and you mentioned the word cheap. Could you continue?
Henry Milke: Yes. The cost of the funeral was $1774.00 approximately. Not including the pastor and the organist. I paid those two items. $100 for the pastor, $60 for the organist. Richard Sadeik asked me to pay half for the funeral expenses. I says Mr. Richard, knowing you had a $5,000 life insurance policy on your grandchild you collect double indemnity I don't know what character to judge you right now. You're asking me to pay for the -- in other words for half the funeral expenses for our grandchild's death that your daughter committed. I said I don't believe what you're saying.
Ken Ray: Okay. Can I interrupt you for one second. You just mentioned the word, well, before I get to that. Can you tell me when you and he are having this conversation?
Henry Milke: We had it on the 3rd but when I said this particular thing this was after -- it must have been two days after. I can't say the exact day here. I have it written at home. I have a book on it with all the dates.

Comment: What transipred is that the families started their arguments about money just one day after Christopher's death. These people later furnished the media with details to character assassination about Debra. It couldn't be worse for the 25-year-old woman.

When he asked me to pay for half of the funeral expenses was the 5th of -- on Tuesday, the 5th of --
Ken Ray: December.
Henry Milke: -- December.
Ken Ray: And the funeral was on the 6th.
Henry Milke: Yes.
Ken Ray: Okay.
Henry Milke: I said to Richard I don't have that much cash. I'd have to go to my -- I had it, but knowing how tight he is because he never ever helped his children out, I was the one that had to do it. So just beating around the bush I says I don't have the money. Finally he says okay. I don't want to create a hardship on you now. He said he had some money in the bank he could pay for it all and I pay him back later. That's the way it stands today. He's never told me not to pay. But there was numerous times that he called me and then at one time when he got kind of smart -- he's always this kind of a character that tells other people what to do. But you can't tell him anything.
Ken Ray: In this conversation that you had on the 5th you mentioned to him that basically you want to pay half of the funeral that --
Henry Milke: I take back --
Ken Ray: -- when your daughter killed the boy, something to that effect.
Henry Milke: Let me put it this way. I didn't say it the 5th. It slipped out on me. I have to correct it.
Ken Ray: Okay.
Henry Milke: That must have been two or three days after the funeral. I'm sorry about that.
Ken Ray: Okay. You did in some conversation to him say that his daughter killed the boy?
Henry Milke: Absolutely.

Comment: HENRY MILKE had no facts to assume that the accusations made towards Debra had any foundation, other that what he was told by TOM OVERSTAKE. HENRY MILKE'S mere assumptions were enough to create a preconceived judgement about his ex-daughter-in-law, who he initially supported. His previous support of Debra is undisputed.

Ken Ray: Where did you get that information? That she killed the boy?
Henry Milke: That she killed the boy?
Ken Ray: Yes.
Henry Milke: You mean physically?
Ken Ray: No, well, whatever you meant by the words. Maybe we should clarify what did you mean?
Henry Milke: Well, I mean, you know, I'm a, I can read, I can write.
Ken Ray: Okay.
Henry Milke: I've got a sound mind.
Ken Ray: Was your conclusions that she had in some way participated in the death of the boy based upon what you read in the newspapers?
Henry Milke: The newspapers?
Ken Ray: Yes.
Henry Milke: No. There's such a thing as a police report.

Comment: Unfortunately HENRY MILKE did not elect to read the police record like "debbiemilke.com" has done that, otherwise the obvious flaws and falsifications would have come to MR. MILKE'S attention. The fact that he, as a family member, accepted Debra's alleged confession "as is", is shocking ! But that happened with many members of the family, who were convinced with the enquiries told by police, without checking back.

Ken Ray: Okay. Had you read a police report by the time that you made that statement?
Henry Milke: No.
Ken Ray: No?
Henry Milke: Not then, no.

Comment: Ken Ray tried hard to follow MILKE'S story but had obvious troubles with that. At first HENRY MILKE justified his statements to the press with the sloppy police report, next he said he hasn't read it until that point in time. Again, it must have been the input of TOM OVERSTAKE that let him believe the story as fabricated by Saldate.

Ken Ray: Okay. Upon what information did you base your statement that she had participated or in fact killed the boy?
Henry Milke: You mean at the time?
Ken Ray: That you made the statement?
Henry Milke: Oh, gee, I never thought about it, no. I don't know. It will probably come to me. I can't -- if I've got enough time to think about it I'll probably remember.

Comment: And here Debra's ex-father-in-law was completely unable to recall the facts or the basis for his assumptions to conclude his judgedment of guilt.

( ... )

Ken Ray: Back at the hearing, after the hearing was over and I don't have a recording to back this up. It's reported that Mark told Debra after that hearing that he doesn't have to kill Christopher or rather he doesn't have to kill Debra to see his son.
Henry Milke: Is that right?
Ken Ray: That's reported as being said. Does that sound like anything Mark had ever said in your presence?
Henry Milke: You know, I tell you what, it kind of seems to me like that kind of behavior -- he would probably only do it in the presence of oh, let's say judge, police, any law enforcement officer because like I said before, it's convicts carry a certain thing against any law enforcement, anything that's law enforcement. They think they're right in their own rights and they're wrong. You know, I mean.
So it's possible to make these kind of threats to get things his way, that's what I'm trying to say.
Ken Ray: Do you know a man by the name of Detective Armando Saldate?
Henry Milke: Just by the name, you know, oh, yeah, I spoke over the phone with him, you know.
Ken Ray: When did you speak with him over the phone?
Henry Milke: Oh, he constantly called me and relayed messages to me about the oh, -- well, when this thing was published in the National Inquirier on January the 8th a lot of this foreign, you know, journalists, one or two had the story. And the Inquirer wanted the syndication rights. I refused anything at all. That I told them -- that's not bringing the child back, forget it. But Saldate -- they called the Phoenix Police Department and since Saldate's name was mentioned in the Inquirer they asked for him and he gave me all those phone numbers.

Comment: "He gave me all those phone numbers". In other words, Saldate didn't limit his questionable activities and tactics with homicide investigations only, but with public relations and media contacts. That confirms the statement made earlier, that the police authorities were interested to have their version of the crime "in print" soon after they have allegedly solved it. But they haven't solved it. As we have analysed the contradictory statements made by ROGER SCOTT, decent police investigations would've questioned SCOTT'S incrimination of JIM STYERS and Debra and eventually resulted in a believable report of the murder. No wonder Debra Milke was sentenced and convicted long before she ever entered the court room. Saldate knew exactly who to feed with what kind of contacts and information, in order to create the scenario that would suit him and the prosecution. That's manipulating people in order to accomplish the desired scenario and prejudice wanted.

And there's a few other times, yes, I mean, you know, we talked about --
Ken Ray: Hold on.
Henry Milke: You know now I remember since you asked me about the first time I saw or talked to Saldate. You know that was one of the Phoenix radio stations had this on the air. Somebody by the name of Peterson broadcasting K something, I don't know the name.
Ken Ray: KFYI?
Henry Milke: KF - I - it was something like that. Anyway, you know, he sounded like a good-natured guy to talk to over the phone but all he was was nosing around but at the time I didn't catch it quick enough. But he played it out there that I said something about life insurance policy. (Inaudible) heard of it. And also when I said it on TV.
Ken Ray: Yes.
Henry Milke: Saldate called me about this. But he only called me not after it was on TV, he called me after it was on the radio too. And he started to give me hell about it, how could I make such a statement and where I heard it.

Comment: Saldate gave HENRY MILKE "hell about it" what to say and what not to say in public. These actions have certainly not been beneficial to Debra's due-process rights. Unfortunately Ken Ray didn't challenge this crucial point a little more.

Never mind where I heard it from I said. I have ways to find that out and I know it so then I asked him well, do you have any children and he says yeah. If one of your children was killed how would you act, the same. So did I do something wrong? No, sir, you didn't. So we'll call it quits. He said yep, leave it alone.

Comment: This is the third time that MR. MILKE elaborated on how Saldate tried to influence him in regards as what to state in front of the media. And HENRY MILKE even started questioning himself : "Did I do something wrong?

People like you or the law don't understand what we people have to go through in a moment like this. I didn't feel, you know, he should talk to me like that. Maybe I wouldn't have said it. But at that time you're not even thinking. The news media is sharp, fishing for things like this. So I don't know if it's a big deal what I said or not. I tell you -- (inaudible).
(Unrelated colloquy)
Ken Ray: Okay. Continue Mr. Milke.

( ... )