BY MR. RAY:
Ken Ray: Good afternoon, Mr. Sweat.
Ernie Sweat: Good afternoon.
Ken Ray: On direct examination just a moment ago -- direct examination being when Mr. Levy asked you questions --
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
( ... )
Ken Ray: All right. Did the relationship just immediately hit off in a dating scenario or was it sort of slow and progressive?
Ernie Sweat: No, sir. We were friends to begin with. We were friends first and foremost. I later dated her.
Ken Ray: Would you have occasion to see her an a regular basis?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
Ken Ray: Would you have occasion to be in and around her desk?
Ernie Sweat: Around her desk? Yes.
Ken Ray: Did she have any photographs or pictures or anything an her desk?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, she did.
Ken Ray: What photographs would that be?
Ernie Sweat: She had a photograph of her son and a photograph of the two of them together.
Ken Ray: And was it in your observation of those photographs that you found out that she indeed did have a little boy?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, it was.
Ken Ray: And upon seeing those photographs, you inquired, "Is that your little boy"?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, I did.
Ken Ray: And she responded happily and favorably, didn't she?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
Ken Ray: And that was not an impediment to you in dating her, was it?
Ernie Sweat: No, not at all.
Ken Ray: And after you commenced dating her you had occasion to meet Christopher?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, I did.
Ken Ray: There was a time during the course of your relationship with Debra that she was contemplating going to another job?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, there was.
Ken Ray: And could you tell us more about that? What was the situation leading to her conversing with you about going to another job?
Ernie Sweat: She had an opportunity with another firm that gave her higher income and more responsibility than what she had. We were friends. She came to me for advice.
Ken Ray: What company was that?
Ernie Sweat: If I remember correctly, it was Meracor insurance.
Ken Ray: Is that part of the MeraBank family, to you knowledge?
Ernie Sweat: To my knowledge, it was.
Ken Ray: And your educational background is in business and finance, isn't that right?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
Ken Ray: And when she spoke with you about this possible move to Meracor, did that give you any concern?
Ernie Sweat: No.
Ken Ray: Did you suggest, at least from your perspective, that that was a wise move for her?
Ernie Sweat: I tried to take as neutral of a role as possible, but I did offer encouragement if that's the move that she wanted to make.
Ken Ray: In your observations of her at Lincoln National, did you believe that she was occupying a position consistent with her capabilities?
Ernie Sweat: No.
Ken Ray: Did you believe that she was overworked or incapable of doing what she was doing at Lincoln National?
Ernie Sweat: No, I did not.
Ken Ray: Quite the opposite, is that right?
Ernie Sweat: That is correct.
Ken Ray: She had more potential than was being utilized at Lincoln National?
Ernie Sweat: That was my personal observation, yes.
Ken Ray: I believe you commenced to date her, what, April, May of 1989?
Ernie Sweat: No, sir. It was June, July.
Ken Ray: Did you have any occasion to see, meet or speak with Mark Milke at that point?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, I did meet Mark Milke.
( ... )
Ken Ray: And what residence was that, sir?
Ernie Sweat: That was the apartment of Jim Styers.
Ken Ray: Did you have occasion to meet Jim Styers at that time?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, I did.
Ken Ray: And did you have any feelings about Jim Styers when you met him?
Ernie Sweat: He seemed like a nice guy, nice enough guy to me.
Ken Ray: Did he have any children with him?
Ernie Sweat: He had a daughter.
Ken Ray: Approximately how old?
Ernie Sweat: Three.
Ken Ray: Did you learn that he had custody of that child, that daughter?
Ernie Sweat: Yes.
Ken Ray: Were you able to observe the interactions between Jim Styers and Christopher?
Ernie Sweat: Yes.
Ken Ray: Did you notice anything odd or unusual about that interaction?
Ernie Sweat: Not that I recall, no.
Ken Ray: Did you observe anything that would give you concern in connection with Jim Styers and Christopher?
Ernie Sweat: No, I did not.
Ken Ray: Did you have any occasion in October to meet Debra Milke's parents?
Ernie Sweat: I'm not sure it was the month of October. I did meet them.
Ken Ray: All right. That was down in Florence?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, it was.
Ken Ray: Did Christopher go with you?
Ernie Sweat: No. He was there.
Ken Ray: He was there?
Ernie Sweat: Yes.
Ken Ray: And at that time of that visit you had occasion to meet Richard Sam Sadeik?
Ernie Sweat: Yes.
Ken Ray: And you knew that to be Debra's father?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
Ken Ray: You met Maureen Sadeik?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, I did.
Ken Ray: And Karen?
Ernie Sweat: I don't think so.
Ken Ray: You don't think you met Karen. All right. Up to that point in time had you and Debra ever discussed marriage?
Ernie Sweat: No, sir, we had not.
Ken Ray: At any time during your relationship with Debra had you ever discussed marriage with her?
Ernie Sweat: No, sir.
Ken Ray: Did she ever bring up the idea or the subject that she wanted ta marry you?
Ernie Sweat: No, sir.
Ken Ray: Did you ever bring up the subject with her that you did not want to marry her?
Ernie Sweat: No, sir.
Ken Ray: Did you ever say to her, "Debra, I'm not interested in marrying -- marriage because I do not want to be a father to your son"?
Ernie Sweat: No, sir, I did not.
Ken Ray: Do you recall reviewing just moments ago a narrative report from Detective Saldate?
Ernie Sweat: Just moments ago, yes, I did.
Ken Ray: Did you also review that on other occasions other than today?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
Ken Ray: Do you recall there being a passage in that report suggesting that you had -- or that she had, rather, discussed the subject of marriage with you?
Ernie Sweat: I do recall reading that passage.
Ken Ray: And did that passage contain a suggestion that you would probably be ready for marriage at a later stage in your life?
Ernie Sweat: It did say that, yes, it did.
Ken Ray: Did you tell that to Detective Saldate?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, I did.
Ken Ray: Do you recall reading a portion of that passage that said that you said, "Every time she spoke about marriage, he told her", being you told her, "that she could go out and find someone to marry - should go out and find someone to marry because she did not only need someone for herself, but needed a father for her child?" Did you tell that to Detective Saldate?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, I did.
MR. RAY: May I have a moment, Your Honor?
BY MR. RAY:
Ken Ray: Do you recall an interview being taken on September 10, 1990?
Ernie Sweat: Yes.
MR. LEVY: Your Honor, I would object if he is going to refer to an interview because I have never been provided by defense counsel a copy of such interview. I have not read such copy of that interview despite disclosure and do not have one now by which I can follow any such questioning by Mr. Ray. Therefore, I would object to this procedure.
MR RAY: Your Honor, may we approach the Bench?
THE COURT: You may.
(Discussion at the Bench between Court and counsel.)
THE WITNESS: Your Honor --
THE COURT: Yes, sir?
THE WITNESS: May I say something?
THE COURT: You have to wait for a question.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
BY MR. RAY:
Ken Ray: Sir, do you recall an interview taken on September 10th commencing at approximately 6:40 p.m.?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, I did.
Ken Ray: And at the time of that interview with you --
MR. RAY: May I approach the witness, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
BY MR. RAY:
Ken Ray: ... were you given a copy of a narrative report prepared by Armando Saldate?
Ernie Sweat: Yes.
Ken Ray: All right. If you would, refer to Page 1, first page.
Ernie Sweat: Okay.
Ken Ray: Do you see your initials anywhere on that document?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
Ken Ray: Did you affix your initials to that document?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
Ken Ray: And you did so in connection with identifying those areas of that report which were not correct, isn't that right?
Ernie Sweat: That is correct, sir.
Ken Ray: And did you not indicate on September the following, commencing on Page 15, line 9 ... The first thing, it says here. "Debra spoke about marriage but he told her he was not ready for marriage at this stage and would probably not be ready for marriage until later stages in his life. This is not correct."
Is that what you said, sir?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, it is.
Ken Ray: And it was in connection with that aspect of that report, is that right?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir. To elaborate --
Ken Ray: No, sir.
THE COURT: We have to wait for Mr. Levy to ask the question to allow you to elaborate.
THE WITNESS Okay.
BY MR. RAY:
Ken Ray: Were you asked to identify any other portions of that report which you found to be in error?
MR. RAY: May I approach again, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
THE WITNESS:Yes, I was.
BY MR. RAY:
Ken Ray: And were you asked to affix your initials to those portions which you found to be incorrect in Detective Saldate's narrative?
Ernie Sweat: Yes.
Ken Ray: And how many different places did you do that, sir?
Ernie Sweat: On five.
Ken Ray: Five different places? How many pages of the report?
Ernie Sweat: Four pages.
Ken Ray: Sir, on how many actual occasions would you say that you have seen Christopher in the company of Debra?
Ernie Sweat: That's a hard question to answer, sir.
Ken Ray: More than ten? More than 15? A hundred?
Ernie Sweat: I would say more than 15, but less than 100.
Ken Ray: Did Christopher hold Debra's hands on those occasions?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
Ken Ray: Did you ever see an exchange of love between those two?
MR. LEVY: Objection, calls for a conclusion, lack of foundation.
MR. RAY: Withdrawn.
BY MR. RAY:
Ken Ray: Did you ever see Debra hug Christopher?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, I did.
Ken Ray: Did you ever see Christopher hug Debra?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
Ken Ray: On many occasions?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
Ken Ray: The child was, in your opinion, fairly well dressed, wouldn't you agree?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
Ken Ray: He appeared healthy to you, didn't he?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, he did.
Ken Ray: You never noticed any bruises or unsightly marks an any of his body?
Ernie Sweat: No, I did not.
Ken Ray: And your observations of Christopher with Debra was that he appeared happy when he was with his mother, isn't that right?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
Ken Ray: And she appeared happy to be with him?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
MR. RAY: No further questions
THE COURT: Redirect.
MR. LEVY: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you, Your Honor.
Ernie Sweat, Debra and her
step-father, Alex Janka
(September 1989)
|
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. LEVY:
Noel Levy: With regard to the
cross-examination questions Mr. Ray asked of you, I would like the opportunity on redirect, Mr. Sweat, and so I wish to cover some of those things that were brought up.
( ... )
Noel Levy: Now, you were asked several questions by Mr. Ray about your statements to Detective Saldate in the interview, is that correct?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, that is.
Noel Levy: Now, it says there are five items, is that correct?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir.
Noel Levy: Is this one of the items? "He said that Debra spoke about marriage on several occasions, but that he told her he was not ready for marriage at this stage and would probably be ready for marriage at a later stage in his life. He said every time she spoke about marriage he told her that she would go out -- that she should go out and find someone to marry because she did not only need someone for herself, but that she needed a father for her child. And that he did not fit that role."
Is that one of the items?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, it was.
Noel Levy: Now, on cross-examination you earlier said that you did tell that to Detective Saldate.
Ernie Sweat: That is true.
Noel Levy: And did you tell that in the context that that was your perception?
Ernie Sweat: No, sir. What I said to Detective Saldate was exactly that. I did not -- I did feel she should find someone for her to meet, someone that would make a husband for her and father for her child. However, in the context it is in that document, it is in the context that we actually had -- that Debra and I had actually had that conversation, which is not correct. I told that to Detective Saldate, that is true. But in the context it is in that document, Debra and I had never had that conversation. And I will be very up front. On cross-examination I had misunderstood the question and I did say what I said originally was incorrect, and I want to clarify that at this point.
Noel Levy: Okay. Have you done that or --
Ernie Sweat: Yes. That's what I'm attempting to do right now.
Noel Levy: So you did say and he did report that accurately as far as your telling him that?
MR. RAY: Objection.
THE COURT: Objection overruled. The witness will be allowed to explain his answer.
THE WITNESS: I did tell him that. I had that conversation with
Detective Saldate. That was my impression. However, the way it is in that report is that it was a conversation that I had with
Debra, and it was not a conversation we had. It was what I told him was my perception.
BY MR. LEVY:
Noel Levy: Thank you.
Now, by the way, I would assurne this is the last place you would want to be, to be a witness here, is that so?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, that's safe to say.
Noel Levy: When Detective Saldate contacted you about this interview, were you somewhat nervous about the fact that perhaps you might have to testify?
MR. RAY: Objection, leading, exceeds the scope of
cross-examination.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, that is true.
BY MR. LEVY:
Noel Levy: So would you say during the course of this interview you were somewhat nervous?
Ernie Sweat: I was quite nervous.
Noel Levy: Now, is this another area of the five? "He said he thought Chris had been neglected by her and he was telling her that she should spend more time with him"?
Ernie Sweat: That is one of the notes that I made.
Noel Levy: Did you tell that to Detective Saldate?
Ernie Sweat: I told Detective Saldate as perception on my part. However, it was listed in that report as a conversation, as conversation that I had had with Debra, and that's not correct.
Noel Levy: And is this another area? "Ernie said the last he spoke to her was Thursday after Thanksgiving. He said she called the office and for some reason they let the call go through and had answered the phone."
And was there some correction there?
Ernie Sweat: Yes sir, there was.
Noel Levy: And that was?
Ernie Sweat: I talked to her at home, not the office.
Noel Levy: Not at the office? So it's at home?
Ernie Sweat: Yes.
Noel Levy: Other than that?
Ernie Sweat: That's all.
Noel Levy: No problem.
Is this the fourth one? "He said that weekend he spent with another girl at a hotel and didn't get home until Sunday evening."
Was that another item?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, it was.
Noel Levy: And what was that?
Ernie Sweat: I did not -- I was not camped up in a hotel with another girl that weekend.
Noel Levy: Did you mean to communicate you just were out with a girl?
Ernie Sweat: I was just -- I was away from home, but not in a hotel.
Noel Levy: And then the other item. Is this the final item, being five? "He said he knew it was going to be tough to break up with Debra and in fact he had spoken with his roommate, who is a little older than he is, for advice. He said the roommate was the one who gave him the advice about having his office tell her when she called that he was not in. He said his roommate's advice was that he could do that to begin to break up the relationship, but that he would later have to tell her that it was over."
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, that is another one.
Noel Levy: And what is the problem there?
Ernie Sweat: It's true that my roommate is older than me. However, as far as having my calls screened at work, that was my idea. It was not the advice of his. It was not his advice.
Noel Levy: And as a matter of fact, it was your roommate who screened your calls at home?
Ernie Sweat: Yes.
Noel Levy: Now, have I covered the five areas?
Ernie Sweat: Yes, sir, you have.
( ... )
